Separation - What Happens

[glennsmom]

My son will be separating the end of this year and I would love to hear from anyone whose Sailor has already gone through this. I have so many questions. What is the timeline for separating? Do they ship their vehicle and personal stuff back home? Do they get to choose their reserve unit or are they just assigned one? This and anything else you think would be useful to know. Thanks.

[Navy GM]

I'm actually in the same sitation, i seperate in OCT. and transfer to the active reserve. As far as picking his reserve duty, it kind of all depends on the reserve detailer. i was lucky enough to have a GM1 who was friends with a detailer, and i picked up exactly what i wanted for orders. for the most part, they try to send you where you want to go. as far as my car and what not, i'm going to send some of my stuff home, and drive the rest. he'll take terminal leave, which is any leave you have saved up at the end of your enlistment, and he'll get to come home for his last two weeks or so, while still actually being in the navy. i'd suggest job hunting ASAP so he can get things figured out. any other questions feel free to ask.

[glennsmom]

Thank you so much. Keep me posted as you go through it all. We plan to go to Florida to help him get everything back here to California. That and I would like to see where he has been living for the last year and a half. We just never got a chance as he wanted to come home in the winter and I have no desire to visit Florida in the summer. He plans to get his lifeguard job back with the City of Los Angeles and go to school for his degree. At least that is what he plans at this time. Do they give you information about the various reserve units in your area or does he need to look up that information on his own? Good luck to you and thanks for the info.

[Foy]

I'm actually in the same sitation, i seperate in OCT. and transfer to the active reserve. As far as picking his reserve duty, it kind of all depends on the reserve detailer. i was lucky enough to have a GM1 who was friends with a detailer, and i picked up exactly what i wanted for orders. for the most part, they try to send you where you want to go. as far as my car and what not, i'm going to send some of my stuff home, and drive the rest. he'll take terminal leave, which is any leave you have saved up at the end of your enlistment, and he'll get to come home for his last two weeks or so, while still actually being in the navy. i'd suggest job hunting ASAP so he can get things figured out. any other questions feel free to ask.

GM-

Thanks for your service and for keeping in touch with this forum. I am very interested in the process you're following to leave NCS in favor of an active duty contract. I'm also interested in knowing if your OCTOBER separation is at the end of your 15 months active or is before the end of it.

From what I've been able to determine, the way out of NCS (and to an active contract) is to employ the active duty recruiting community and get signed up as a prior service active duty sailor. So, if you're headed for an active contract, it is great interest to me how you're "getting there". It is of particular interest how long your active contract is and whether there will be a break in service when you separate from NCS.

Thanks for any intel you can share. If you prefer, you can contact me directly at fbeal "at" bqcpa "dot" com.

Foy

[Navy GM]

Well, my request to re-enlist was denied....again. Turns out the only way out of an NCS contract at the moment is to go to a special warfare program. I picked up orders to a reserve Mobile Inshore Undersea Warfare Unit (MIUWU) out of St. Louis. The reserve detailer told me to just find a job, live there for six months or so, get all of the training for this job, which i am told is quite a bit, and then come back active. it won't count as a break in service and i'll be restored to active duty, and most likely i'll have a lot of options due to the training i'll get from the MIUWU while i'm there as a reservist. i'm not putting too much faith in anything i'm told by the navy at the moment, and i still can't believe we've come to the day when a Military member with a great performance record, who has been to iraq and is more than willing to go back, is being denied re-enlistment. but, i still want to come back active regardless, and i'll make sure to post on here exactly how i get it done.

[glennsmom]

Good luck to you. Keep us posted.

[Foy]

In too much of a hurry, I guess. You clearly said you were separating and reporting to the SELRES, and I somehow missed the point.

I know of one NCS Seabee who is being allowed to switch to active before his 15 months is up, and that individual is going to EOD. An EOD recruiter told me, by email, that they've got clearance to accept applications from NCS personnel on a case-by-case basis. A CPO in a recruiting office in California told me there is a chance to get out of NCS by going back through an active duty recruiter--provided you can find one willing to work with you, a prior service candidate.

And I certainly agree with you: Where is the logic behind misinformation and outright deception in getting guys to sign up for NCS, treating them like 2nd class citizens in bootcamp, A School, and while active, denying them rate-ups due to NCS status, and denying them the chance to stay active for 24 more months, despite the language in their contracts which indicates they "may" do so?

If this scenario is intended to boost the Reserve ranks, in my opinion it will be effective for exactly 24 months, max. After that, I wouldn't blame any NCS personnel for giving the Navy the heave-ho forever. This is a load of crap, pure and simple.

Oh, and I'm very happy to know you won't have a break in service.

Best regards, and thanks for your service.

Foy

[KarlsMom]

There is so much confusion regarding NCS. My son has dealt with "misinformation" several times since he finished boot camp. And as my earlier post stated, it's pretty obvious that the option to extend is false. Yeah, you can request an extension but don't expect it.
NCS was "developed" by Congress.....need I say more?

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=124&subsecID=307&contentID=252480

[Foy]

KarlsMom-
Thanks for that link. Hadn't seen that particular article before.

One recruiting official is quoted as saying NCS could be crucial to enlisting and retaining Reservists. Apparently, in early 2004 when the article was written, the deception in the contract language, mis-information from recruiters, discrimination during A School and during active duty, and slamming of doors in the faces of NCS enlistees wanting to remain active for > 15 months (as their contracts clearly imply), was not well-known. With all the above, I'd rate the Reserve's chances of keeping a NCS sailor on board after 24 months in the Reserve is so close to zero you can't measure it.

My personal gut feeling is Congress created NCS over the strong objections of the armed services (a fact often written about) and required them to implement it. The Navy seems to have taken the position of "we told you this would not work, and now we're going to prove it".

I've read nothing about NCS being extended beyond the presently scheduled sunset at 31 December 2007. And thank goodness for that. Good riddance, NCS.

Foy

[glennsmom]

Foy,

Let's hope that once December comes around and they no longer offer that contract they will no longer feel the need to prove it doesn't work and will start allowing our Sailors to re-up. We can only hope.

[KarlsMom]

I believe you're right, Foy.

[Navy GM]

Well, i got the word today, my extension package went through. No navy reserve for this guy! i'm re-enlisting for four, two of that being with my current battalion.

[glennsmom]

Have to congratulate you two times. This is such good news and maybe gives some hope to others not to give up. I am very happy for you.

[Kristie]

Congratulations Navy GM.....that is great news...

[PANavyMom]

Congratulations NavyGM!!!

[cousinIT]

congrats, shipmate!

[texas4me]

Finally...this is great news! I hope there are more stories such as this. It gives me some hope that my son who is also NCS, has a chance now. Hmmmm...could things be changing? Congratulations!

Foy,
Thanks for leaving this on navy-parents.com.

[glennsmom]

Well my son will be coming home in a little over a month. Does anybody know about TAP (Transition Assistance Program I think)? I was also told he should speak to a Navy Career Counselor and also make sure he gets school credit for all his training. Any other helpful hints would be appreciated. Oh, what type of assistance does the Navy give in getting all his car and stuff home? Thanks

[glennsmom]

Well my son's EOS is November 10th and I am flying back to help him haul his stuff home. He procrastinated so is in a rush to get all his paperwork done. I will arrive in Pensacola when the Blue Angels are there and hope to get a chance to see them. Then we pack up and make the long haul across country. A new phase of life is starting for all of us, wish us luck.

[KYmom]

Good luck, you got my number if you need anything from any of us. We will be here to see you safely across.

[KarlsMom]

Hey, Everyone......I've been a stranger here. Life has been busy!
Karl has received his Separation Orders and leaves Base on April 22nd. His request for extension was denied. He's gone thru TAP and etc. and was actually told during this class that extensions are being denied on this contract.
The attitude from Higher Ups on this contract and the crap that he's gone through since graduating boot camp has put a very sour taste in his mouth about the Navy. Sailors under this contract are definitely treated like unwanted Step children.
He has been fortunate regarding his choice of Reserve Base. He's coming home!
He has been told, however, that he will likely be re-activated and sent overseas.
He has no problem with that.....feels it's his duty.
It's a shame that things have gone so negative for him (regarding the Navy). It would have been such a great career! Who knows.....maybe time will change his mind and he'll re-up at the end of the 2 year Reserve obligation.

Hope life has been good for everyone here on Navy Cafe!

[glennsmom]

Sorry to hear Karl wasn't able to stay in. Glad he was fortunate in his reserve base. What I am wondering right now is if they really will be able to re-up at the end of the 2 year Reserve obligation. Will they only be allowed to stay in the Reserves or will they get a choice to go active again at that time. Anyone know?

[KarlsMom]

I haven't heard anything on extension requests at the end of the 2 year Selective Reserve obligation....I think the contract is still too "young" for anyone to have reached that point yet.
There has been so much confusion with this contract! Now they're telling him that he won't receive his sign-on Bonus until after 1 year completion of Selective Reserve Service! That's not what his contract states. Crazy.
Let's hope for the best when the 2 year Reserve obligation is up! :eterollll:

[glennsmom]

I pulled out my son's contract and this is what DD Form 2863 states.

I am enlisting in the United States Navy this date under the provisions of the National Call to Service program.
I understand that with this enlistment, I incur a total of eight-year military service obligation (MSO). This MSO will normally consist of three phases:
(1) Fifteen (15) months of active duty following completion of initial entry training (to include skill training); followed by
(2) Reenlistment/extension on active duty of at least 24 months, or
(3) Two (2) years of service in the Selected Reserve: followed by
(4) Remainder of MSO in either:
- Active Duty,
- Selected Reserve,
- Individual Ready Reserve,
- Other National Service program - AmeriCorps (Subtitle C), AmeriCorps *Vista and AmeriCorps *NCCC, Peace Corps,
- Any combination of the above.
I understand that I may reenlist/extend (if otherwise eligible) while serving in the active duty phase of the program. An active duty reenlistment/extension of two (2) years or more will fulfill the Selected Reserve phase of the MSO.

This form was the only place I saw that active duty was offered as a choice for the remainder of the MSO after the active duty and selected reserve duty. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens to those who get to this point before our sons. I plan to keep on asking questions though.

[KarlsMom]

Yep, that's what my Sailor's contract states, too.
When I told him that the bonus info he was given was NOT according to his contract, he asked me to scan/email a copy to him. It's being reviewed again.
There are also rumors about the Sailors receiving Separation Pay for those that requested an extension and were denied. This is considered involuntary separation. Can anyone confirm this?
He's already sending his resume out to several different organizations and etc.....just another difference the Navy has made! No more "waiting until the absolute last minute"!

[KarlsMom]

My Sailor is home! Had a few problems but all has worked out.
Was supposed to receive his DD214 on May 12th. Didn't receive until this past weekend......apparently Whidbey Island processed the paperwork wrong and it was held up in Corpus Christi Naval Base.
Fortunately Karl was able to get a job working for an electrical company without the DD214. Otherwise he would have been in a heck of a bind. Can't receive unemployment without the DD214.....need the form to apply for job postings on usajobs.com.......Very disappointing on how his separation was handled.
He does like his Command here. He's already reviewing his options for the 2-week Drill. LOL.
Hope none of our other NCS Sailors are having any difficulties with their DD214's.

[glennsmom]

Thanks for checking in and letting us know how Karl is doing. I have no idea what a DD214 is and hopefully my son got it but I'll have to look through his papers. He nor I never thought of applying for unemployment, silly us. He was out of work for six months. He did take a couple classes at the college but was waiting to recertify for his old lifeguard job and waiting till the season started. He finally was assigned a drilling unit and does indoc this weekend. He was in holding for seven months. He hopefully will find out about his two week duty this weekend as well as his first year in reserves will be up in November. He just hates to ask questions on anything, so then misses out on stuff. My son's separation was lousy but in part that was because he left it to the last minute and had to rush everything. He never did take the TAP class. Keep us posted on how he is doing.

[KarlsMom]

DD214 is the Separation Form. Basically states that your Sailor is no longer Active Duty. I'm sure your Sailor has it.....it's a pretty important form.....Fortunately, Karl had a couple of Petty Officers that filled him in on the "What to do" list. Otherwise he wouldn't have known about unemployment either!
He has 4 different jobs available right now!! 3 are with an electronics company, starting at $16 an hour and another is at an Air Force Base here. Air Force position will probably take a few months to process but that's the one he REALLY wants.
It is such relief that things are falling into place for him.
His Navy training has really been a huge help to him.
Unfortunately, Navy life also introduced the world of tattoos! LOL
Hope all works out for your Sailor!

[glennsmom]

Yes, he did have that form, it was with all his papers when he left Florida. When I mentioned the unemployment he said he knew about it. Well since he wasn't looking for work and was going to go to school I guess that is why he never applied for it. He is working now but it is not a full time job. He still says he wants to go to school but not as a full time student. So glad that things are going well for your son.

[KarlsMom]

Hello, Everyone.
I've been a stranger here....again.
I wanted to see if anyone else's Sailor has come across the same "issue" that my Sailor did this past weekend.
He reported to Reserve Drill and his name was not called during Muster. Apparently, he was Honorably Discharged in March. March!! He was there in March and nothing was said. He was even informed where his 2 week Drill would take place. He received nothing in the mail....nothing was emailed....nothing.
He still has another year under Selective Reserve and the remaining MSO in IRR.
He was so very mad! Yes, it's an Honorable Discharge but....he didn't want out! If we understand correctly, basically he was laid off by the military! Downsizing....too many in the Reserves.
If that wasn't bad enough, they used the code RE4! so now he cannot enlist in any of the other branches. ????
I'm telling you, this NCS Program has been a pain in the rear! One incompetent misunderstanding after another. We've lost count how many times he had to show/explain his contract to personnel!

[MacSteve]

.. when you get out you have to be an active reservist? i thought it was saying that if all hell broke out your going to be 1 of the first to be recalled.... am i confused?

[sweetmtn]

Unfortunetly that NCS contract is crap!!!! I dont know of any sailor that has had luck with that program in tha past few years...sorry your son is having a tough time... They tell you in the beginning you can re-up for regular enlisted, but then you find out that is not so, then it is too late.

[MacSteve]

ah special contract. that blows...

[KarlsMom]

"Unfortunetly that NCS contract is crap!!!!"
Not gonna disagree on that one, Sweetmtn!
While in V. Beach, they told him his contract was complete and none of the active duty time was even served (A and C School). While in Japan, my son requested an extension - denied. When he reported to Reserves after transferring from Active Duty, they had nothing on him. Paperwork was filed wrong. He didn't even have a listed contact in Reserves, and that was never corrected.
And there's no point complaining to your Congress Rep because they're all clueless and won't step on anyone's toes.....very sad affair.
Sorry for the frustrated tone.

[glennsmom]

So sorry your son is getting treated so badly at his command and that his NCS contract is all messed up. I guess my son has been lucky so far. He has had no major problems, at least yet. I know of another NCS who was offered to go active at the end of his two years of active reserves but he is no longer interested. I guess like anything in the Navy it depends on your command and some to your being on top of things. Best of luck to your son.